On Friday, July 8, 2022, Mary sat down with Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams for a one on one discussion about issues that directly impact the disabled community.
The two discussed the lack of affordable, accessible housing, voter suppression, health care, myths surrounding Medicaid expansion, and more.
Leader Abrams' plans for the state of Georgia are further described on her website found here.
The Politics of Disability was named Best Interview Podcast at the Astoria Film Festival in both October 2022 and again in June 2023.
On Friday, July 8, 2022, Mary sat down with Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams for a one on one discussion about issues that directly impact the disabled community.
The two discussed the lack of affordable, accessible housing, voter suppression, health care, myths surrounding Medicaid expansion, and more.
Leader Abrams' plans for the state of Georgia are further described on her website found here.
The Politics of Disability was named Best Interview Podcast at the Astoria Film Festival in both October 2022 and again in June 2023.
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Mary: Hello everyone, and welcome. My name is Mary Fashik. I am the founder Upgrade Accessibility and your host. I’d like to thank you for joining me today, at the intersection of disability and politics. The road ahead can be a bumpy one, so buckle up and let's navigate this journey together.
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Mary: Hello and welcome to this very special edition of The Politics of Disability Podcast. I am honored and delighted to welcome my guest today--leader Stacey Abrams. Leader Abrams, thank you so much for taking the time out of your very busy schedule to join me today.
Stacey Abrams: Thank you for having me.
Mary: Leader Abrams, with the disabled community making up the largest minority in the nation and disability being highly political, why is the disabled community so often left out of the conversation or not centered when it comes to politics, policies, and decision making? And what will your administration do to change that?
Stacey Abrams: Sadly, those communities that are in the minority, be it based on disability, based on race, based on sexual orientation or other identities, the willingness to leave them out of the conversation is, sadly, a given. And for the disabled community, you also often sit in the intersection of multiple identities that are unfortunately either devalued or overlooked. We know that when it comes to issues of politics, the responses are governed by the sense of how much power you have and how willing you are to demand your due and your rights.
And why I'm so excited to be engaged with the disabled community is that I believe that your power to manifest change has been proven time and again, but has been left out in recent years. My responsibility is to be a leader who does not wait for communities to demand attention, but to create space for that attention to be directed.
And that's why, in my campaign, I began as I need to go on. I have a staffer whose commitment is to focus on the needs of the disabled. But more than that, I want to ensure that as governor, I create the opportunity for full, meaningful lives and access to care. And that means looking at every single segment of the responsibility of governor, and ensuring that there is not only a voice, but that there is accountability.
That means increasing disability protections, including, for example, eliminating the practice of subminimum wages in Georgia and defending disabled Georgians by enforcing fair wage payments. It means affordable and accessible housing. Georgia, unfortunately, continues to undersupply the amount of affordable and accessible housing to meet the needs of disabled Georgians. But we also have a deep challenge with holding landlords accountable for discriminatory processes and discriminatory practices.
We have to support people who are coping with Long COVID, and we know the intersection of Long COVID with disability is deeply, deeply problematic. And we know that when it becomes a disability, there is a dearth of support and a dearth of conversation about what that looks like. For me, the largest opportunity we have is to expand Medicaid.
By doing so, we increase access to the full range of medical and mental health care for Georgians, including disabled people, many of whom may already be able to access some portion of Medicaid but are denied the full range because we don't have the services here until we expand. As you know, I care about voting and making certain that voting is convenient and accessible, making sure that we strengthen our aging and disability resource centers, increasing access to affordable and accessible transportation, and then across the board ensuring that there is a disability lens for every single department in state government.
That's a long list, but I think it's important for me to demonstrate that I understand that this cannot be a single-issue decision because the disabled community is not a single-issue community. Disability makes up the largest minority in the nation, but it also cuts across so many other challenges and opportunities. And my mission is to be a governor who sees these opportunities and seizes these opportunities.
Mary: I want to touch on a couple things that you mentioned--one being the intersectionality. That is something that I am very, very passionate about in my advocacy is that we always talk about intersectionality. Because disabled people--we are at every crossroads. We are part of every group that there is. And we are often left out of conversations, be it political, social, any conversation, we are often left out.
So it is very important that we do emphasize the intersectionality of disabled individuals, particularly, multi-marginal individuals who are disabled. Also about the lack of affordable accessible housing--as someone who is disabled and lives in an apartment that my rent just went up $269 a month--is there any way to combat this? What would be a way for disabled individuals to have access to affordable, accessible housing? Because affordable housing is one thing, but affordable, accessible housing is a whole other issue.
Stacey Abrams: We know that, unfortunately, there is a common misperception that the Americans with Disabilities Act solved the challenges for the disabled community. It is a myth that has permeated not only the public consciousness, but also political action. And the lack of attention to these challenges exacerbates what I believe are the very real hardships that are visited upon the disabled community.
And to your point, housing is a critical one. We know that, as you said, it's inventory that is accessible. So having enough locations, enough housing opportunities, that are actually accessible to those who are disabled. And then it's affordability--being able to afford to live there once you can find it. And typically we see these conversations conflated and we have to address them separately, but together.
And so we have to have parallel tracks. As governor, I would increase the amount of availability, increase the inventory of accessible living spaces. That means working closely with local governments who are typically the lead on developing affordable housing, but making certain that we are increasing the inventory by focusing on accessibility as one of the metrics for new developments. And for any retrofitting that is happening, making certain that we do not exempt those retrofits unnecessarily from responsibility for accessibility. And then on the other side, it's affordability. Georgia has made it harder and harder. And when I say Georgia, I mean Governor Kemp has made it harder and harder to hold landlords accountable. Right now, we have two competing challenges. Georgia has hundreds of millions of dollars that came to the state for COVID relief, for rental assistance.
And yet under this governor, the state gave back money because it would not deploy it fast enough. And we know the state is still sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars that can help reduce the cost of housing for thousands of Georgians. That’s a short term solution, but a critical one in the midst of COVID, which is not over. Longer term, right now, in the state of Georgia, it is unlawful for cities and counties to address affordability. We cannot look at issues of rent control or rent subsidization or rent stabilization. And those are different opportunities. And there's no one size fits all. But it is unlawful for local governments to do that because of the state structure. As governor, I would work with local governments to give them more flexibility on affordable issues.
I would also put more money into affordable housing from the state level and make certain that we are fully leveraging the federal dollars to which we are entitled. Those are just a handful of the issues that we have, but we have to have a governor who believes that these are priorities. And sadly, we do not. The last major issue we face in Georgia is that we have a number of non-Georgia-based companies that are buying up housing in Georgia and raising the rents.
We have corporations and hedge funds that are purchasing the affordable units that we have and are either jacking up the rates or they are converting those locations into luxury housing and putting them outside the price point of the average Georgian. And that, again, to your point about intersectionality, has a multiplier effect on the disabled community, which is often on a fixed income.
As governor, I would make certain that we are holding these non-Georgia landlords accountable, that we are not allowing them to exploit their tenants and to not discriminate against those tenants. Because we know that income discrimination is part of what's happening, that certain types of vouchers are not being permitted. And that means that people who have the need for housing, and the ability to afford housing, cannot secure housing.
And those are all issues the governor can tackle and address.
Mary: Thank you. I want to move on to health care. I live in Brunswick. And living in an area like Brunswick--rather than a larger one like Savannah or Atlanta--there's limited access to health care here. There is one doctor or two doctors per specialty. I am chronically ill. There is one rheumatologist in Brunswick. There are a few gastroenterologists in this town. And because one of my doctors did not agree with my other doctor, I am now being refused care. Can anything be done to eliminate this type of monopoly, which ultimately can cause inadequate or lack of care, when we talk about these private practices--or even practices by the local hospital--that are just denying care to the patients that are most in need?
Stacey Abrams: What feels like a monopoly is actually a shortage. A monopoly tends to presume that one entity is attempting to keep others out. And that's not the case in Georgia. Georgia faces the opposite problem of having a healthcare worker shortage. That is almost entirely driven by our broken public health care system. And what is causing it to not only break but stay broken is our refusal to expand Medicaid. In Georgia, right now, we have a dramatic shortage in health care workers. We know that because of the underpayment in our Medicaid system--because of the broken nature of our health care system at large--right now, 65 of Georgia's 159 counties have no pediatrician. 82 counties have no obstetrician or gynecologist. 18 counties have no physicians practicing family medicine. 64 have no general surgeons.
And 9 counties have no doctors at all. And what this means is that when you need access to aid, when you need help, you are at the mercy--yes--of a single doctor or single practice group. But that's because we don't have enough doctors to go around. Refusing to expand Medicaid means we're going to remain in that position. In the 38 states that have expanded Medicaid, they have seen an increase in their health care outcomes and a decrease in cost. And the increase in health care outcomes comes about in part because more doctors come to provide services. Glynn County is a perfect example. This is a community that if we expanded Medicaid, hundreds more people would have the ability to go and see doctors, which basically increases your customer pool.
And if you have demand, supply will show up. And right now, Georgia is refusing to implement Medicaid expansion, which increases our demand side. And until we increase demand by giving more people access to health insurance, we will not get the supply side that we need, which is more health care workers coming into our communities. And to your point, when that happens, the most vulnerable and the most marginalized are also the most affected.
That is why I am so bullish on Medicaid expansion and why I emphasize it to everyone, even if you already have Medicaid. If we do not expand it, those who are willing to accept Medicaid are also harmed because their reimbursement payments are so low in Georgia. If we expand Medicaid, we can also increase reimbursement payments, making it a more palatable way to pay for health insurance.
And if you have private insurance, we can expand your options so that you can get the health care you need. And the other piece of that is making sure that we also increase accessible transportation options so that you are not held hostage by geography. When you need to go and see a doctor who is willing to provide the services that you need.
Mary: While we are talking about Medicaid expansion, what are some myths surrounding Medicaid expansion?
Stacey Abrams: The major myth about Medicaid expansion is that it's going to increase taxes. That is absolutely untrue. It has always been untrue. It has been disproven in 38 states. Not a single one of those states has been compelled to increase taxes. But let's put the history aside. Let's look at today. Today, there was an announcement that the state of Georgia has yet another record surplus.
Medicaid expansion will cost the state around $270 million a year. We have an excess of $2.8 billion. So assuming we do nothing else, we could pay for Medicaid expansion just from the surplus. But we don't have to. We have enough room in our budget already to expand Medicaid because that surplus includes the fact that we are raising more money as a state, year over year. Even in a recession, Georgia has a sufficient amount of money to pay for Medicaid. And I encourage people to go to my website, which is accessible. And we have an entire page that talks about how we fund everything. I'm not suggesting that I should just be trusted because I say it. I can prove it. Medicaid expansion will not increase taxes.
It will increase availability. It will increase jobs. It will increase the pay in those jobs. It will expand the access to doctors and nurses and other health care workers. And it works. The other piece is that people presume that you only care about Medicaid expansion if you're on Medicaid, and that's not the case. Medicaid expansion helps those who need nursing services.
So I know a number of people in the disability community have to rely on nursing care. They end up in nursing homes. And under the structure of Medicaid and under the structure of our health programs, Medicaid pays for nursing homes, not Medicare, Medicaid. And so if we expand Medicaid, we expand the full range of medical services that are available to Georgians, especially disabled people.
And the last one is that the people in Medicaid won't work. That's also not true. These are people who are usually making minimum wage. But in Georgia, if you are a single person without a dependent and you are not disabled, you cannot access Medicaid. You can't access health insurance, basically. You're too poor to buy it on the market and you're too rich to get it in Georgia.
But when those communities, when those working folks get Medicaid, when they are able to get health insurance, it lowers cost for everyone. And there is a ripple effect that lifts everyone as opposed to flooding and drowning everyone out. And so I want people to understand that Medicaid expansion is shorthand for a number of ways that we can improve access, improve treatment, improve outcomes.
And it all is doable within the existing budget of the state of Georgia.
Mary: And I think part of that narrative comes from a very ableist point of view--that everyone wants a handout, particularly disabled people, that we are just waiting for a handout. And that is not the case. We just want equity and we want equality. And I know that I am privileged enough to have Medicare and Medicaid, but I'm also sitting here without three of my medications right now. Because they told me at the pharmacy that neither Medicare nor Medicaid would fully cover those prescriptions. And they're to help me breathe.
And I know under Medicaid expansion, this is something I wouldn't have to worry about. So it's not a matter of a hand out as much as leveling the playing field.
Stacey Abrams: Absolutely, Mary. I want people to think about the basic idea of government. Government exists because we looked around society and we said that we're willing to all pool our resources together because we have different needs at different times. And we're going to put our resources together and we're going to serve some people who'll need more sometimes. We have some folks who won't need anything until there's an emergency. And there's some who are going to need a little bit of help all the time.
But as a society, we both know that it's the moral thing to do, but it's also the economically efficient thing to do--that the more stable and more convenient and more equitable society is, the better it is for everyone. Because we never know what the future is going to hold for us. And so this notion of government handing things out, there might be a small percentage of people for whom that is true, but the vast majority are people who want to be a part of society.
They want to put in their fair share, but their fair share looks different. And we have to create space and equity for everyone's contributions. But we also then have to be willing to accept that we aren't always doing our best job. And that's why we have elections, because we need to hire leaders who actually share the vision that we are all in this together.
We aren't guaranteed equality of outcome, but we should be guaranteed equity of opportunity. And that's the mission that I have.
Mary: And while we are talking about hiring leaders, I want to talk about voter suppression in Georgia, particularly for the disabled community. I myself have had issues with the primary election, obtaining an absentee ballot, because Governor Kemp has made it a lot harder for someone like me to vote. What, if anything, can be done to combat voter suppression, particularly for the disabled community in Georgia?
Stacey Abrams: We have to recognize that the restrictions that were put in place through SB 202 have a direct negative suppressive effect on the disabled community. Brian Kemp said himself that he didn't like the outcome of the federal elections in 2020 and thus he fixed it with SB 202. That's what he said. And what he means by 'fix it' is that he means that he made it more difficult for voters to use certain methods of voting, namely voting by mail.
And we know that voting by mail is absolutely essential. More than 53% of people with disabilities voted by mail in 2020, compared to about 42% of people without disabilities. Well, what SB 202 does: it adds layers and layers of new barriers to being able to vote by mail. So let's start with the fact that you cannot apply for your absentee ballot more than 78 days before the election, and you cannot ask for it fewer than 11 days. Most people have no idea what date that is on the calendar and being able to count back from 78 but make certain you don't go any further than 11 is asking too much for a fundamental right. Number two, the form itself requires new information that cannot be pre-filled.
It used to be that organizations could pre-fill that information out, just to apply for the ballot, not to fill out your ballot, just to ask for your absentee ballot. Organizations used to be able to pre-fill that information and give it to you. So all you have to do is officially send it in. But you didn't have to try to navigate all of the new rules.
Well, they have made that unlawful. It is illegal for organizations that are advocates for the disabled to pre-fill those applications. And therefore, we're going to see an increased number of people whose applications are rejected. And often people don't know why their applications were rejected. And if you're too close within that window, or if you're applying to a county that is overwhelmed, you may not find out in time to fix it.
We also know that just 26% of people with disabilities voted at a polling place on Election Day. Well, if you cannot navigate the absentee ballot process, then you are now basically at the mercy of the polling location you are assigned to. And we know that many of those polling locations are not required to abide by the Americans with Disabilities Act when it comes to accessibility.
There are certain buildings, namely churches, that do not have to comply. And because so many voting locations are in those spaces, it makes it nearly impossible for those who are disabled, who do not have assistance, to navigate getting access. So you can't get your ballot by mail, but you also can't get inside the polling place. That is voter suppression.
And unfortunately, SB 202 does not provide any mechanisms to navigate that. One of the things they will tell you is, “Well, if you can get your absentee ballot, you can use a drop box.” The drop box used to be outside those buildings. Now the drop box has to be inside the building. And so if you were disabled but had the ability to pull up to the drop box and not have to navigate getting out of a vehicle, navigating stairs, navigating inclines. That was improvement. That made it much easier for disabled people to vote.
That has now been removed--not because there was fraud, not because there was misuse--but because too many people voted for the convenience of those who did not like it. And so we have to know that the disabled community is not only facing barriers to voting, they are the target of voter suppression. Because when these issues were raised, the people who made these decisions--Brad Raffensperger, Brian Kemp--they said they did not care because they passed these laws anyway to stop people from winning elections that they didn't agree with.
Mary: That is a lot to digest, a lot to take in, and we could talk about that for a much longer period of time. I do want to add that the other layer is COVID. And for someone like myself who is very high risk for COVID, going to a polling place is not an option. So there are so many layers to this voter suppression. Do you have any final thoughts or anything that you would like to add before we wrap up?
Stacey Abrams: I would. Mary, I want to say that while I've laid out these challenges, I'm so happy that we started by centering the opportunities. This election is a chance for the disabled community in Georgia to demand attention. You asked why, so often, they are overlooked. I'm here to tell you this is the election where you can demand attention.
This is the election where your power is real. We are watching at the Supreme Court the devolution of power. They are sending civil rights that should be protected no matter where you live and no matter who you are. They are sending it to be determined by those who have demonstrated they do not intend to serve--that they do not intend to treat the disabled community with the respect and dignity and equity it deserves.
And so, regardless of how we may have felt about small pieces of the last four years, we have to think about what happens in the next four years. And in the next four years, we have a choice between a governor who passed a law to make it more difficult to access the right to vote and to make choices.
A governor who ignored the implications of COVID. A governor who has shown absolutely no interest in amending his policies to address the very real and vocal issues that you and other advocates have raised. Or we can have a governor like myself who has not only centered the disabled community in my campaign, I have a full plan for what we can do next.
We have to solve immediate problems. And I know the pain of economic anxiety and the challenges that we face feel overwhelming, but we have to be able to do the immediate and the long term. And I intend to be a governor who serves us for the long term. Because I see you. I hear you, and I am with you.
Mary: Leader Abrams, thank you so much for taking time today to talk to me, to be on my podcast, and just give time to our community so that we can feel as though someone else is out there advocating for us. Thank you.
Stacey Abrams: Thank you, Mary. Thank you to your audience.
[music playing while Mary speaks] Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Politics of Disability Podcast. As you navigate your journey, remember: disability is political; disability is messy; disability is not palatable--nor does it have to be.
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