The Intersection of the Performing Arts and Ableism - Part 2

In part two of this episode, Mary continues her conversation with friend Christophe Desorbay.

The two discuss Mary’s acting aspirations, the lack of representation on Broadway, auditioning for a Broadway role as some who is hard of hearing, and more. 

Christophe Desorbay is Franco-American producer and artist living in NYC. He currently works at Range Media Partners, finding the ways that theater can successfully interact with Film and & TV. Christophe is also a performer based in NYC, and thinks deeply about the ways that the industry can be more inclusive to disability. His regional theater credits include: West Side Story, Cinderella, Fiddler on the Roof, Guys & Dolls. TV/Film Credits include: ‘The Plot Against America’ and ‘Wig,’ now on HBO. He has also appeared in numerous ads and promotional materials, including Google Pixel, Daily Harvest, and The Book of Mormon. He has danced for JKDC, David Dorfman Dance, ELSCO Dance, and The Orsano Project as a company member. 

You can follow Christophe on social media here.

The Politics of Disability was named Best Interview Podcast at the Astoria Film Festival in both October 2022 and again in June 2023.

Transcript

[music playing as Mary speaks]

Mary: Hello everyone and welcome to season 2 of the award-winning podcast The Politics of Disability. 

My name is Mary Fashik. I am your host and founder of the Disability Justice movement Upgrade Accessibility. We’re still navigating that bumpy road, but there are lots of potholes along the way. 

You’ll want to make sure you’re buckled up really tight. 

All set? Here we go. 

[music playing]

Mary: Welcome back! Let’s see where we left off….oh, it was getting good! Are you all buckled in? Great! Let’s not waste any more time and get right to it. 

Mary: I think I told you this, but I really wanted to be an actress. But I never saw anyone in a motorized chair or with impaired speech.

Christophe: Well, I hope that someone is listening to this and will change their mind about their future production and accommodation because, you know, disability is grossly underrepresented in the theater space, particularly in the commercial theater space, which is Broadway and off-Broadway. I think that is the case because kind of what I've been touching upon the theater industry at large, it's such an ableist industry and since it's so ableist, there's no room or there's no consideration for disability, disabled actors, accommodation.

And that needs to change. I mean, the fact of the matter is, one in four Americans is disabled. And while hidden disabilities are very much a thing, I would argue that if you look at any stage or audience that not one in four of those people are disabled. And so we have to start changing that. So to you, I hope that you've never given up on your acting dreams because it's never too late.

There are always the stories of people that started acting when they were 40, 50, 60, you never know. And then they pop off. [laughs] So if you want to be an actress, go for it. I will be right here to support you. And I will be here in this fight to make sure that someone gives you the chance you deserve.

Mary: Thank you. Well, I love Ali Stroker, I just, I don't feel represented.

Christophe: I want to ask you, are you saying that because Ali Stroker is probably the only disabled performer that you've seen on a Broadway stage?

Mary: Yes.

Christophe: Got it. There's another one. Have you heard of Madison Ferris?

Mary: No.

Christophe: Oh, okay. We're going to do some more talking later. [laughs] Yeah. I mean, Ali Stroker won the Tony Awards a few years ago for her performance in Oklahoma, which I had the privilege of seeing. She truly was fantastic and was incredibly deserving of her Tony Award. And I'm sure you, like me, when she won that Tony Award and gave her acceptance speech, that that was such a defining and emotional moment because she dedicated it to all her disabled counterparts.

So, yeah, I'm glad that Ali Stroker has the platform she has, and I love that she won, rightfully so, the Tony Award. And I really hope that this motivated producers, playwrights, directors, casting directors, to think differently about their work. And while a pandemic has happened in the time that she won the Tony Award and we are at now, I haven't really seen any changes in the theater industry at large. And that's disheartening.

And I hope that that's not what the future of the theater industry is going to be. So I agree with you. I don't feel represented because disability is such a spectrum and we need to include it all. I would also like to offer that I'm also a dancer, as I mentioned. And I do audition for shows. And something that I found in my experience, is: In auditioning, at least pre-pandemic, it was so hard for me to go to a dance audition because, you know, there's 30, 40, 50 plus people in a room.

We're all learning the same combination. And maybe it's eight counts of eight, which I guess would translate to 30 seconds in non-dancer terms. But you know, they're teaching and they're switching lines and I'm in the back. I'm not hearing it. I don't know what song they're playing. So I'm trying to play catch-up with what the choreographer is saying, what the moves are.

And if I can't see it because I'm in the back, I'm already falling behind. And then they're playing the music and you only get one or two chances to figure it out. And at that point, I'm so flustered because I'm supposed to be doing my thing. I'm supposed to dance, I'm a dancer. And I just feel so much less than. Because I can't keep up and then I get cut.

And then I don't get a chance to do my best work. And I think that, again, we were kind of talking about that ableism in theater. I think that ableism also exists in the casting process. It exists everywhere, but also just in the casting process. Because how is someone like me, a hard-of-hearing person supposed to keep up with the audition process, when it's moving so quickly and it doesn't consider the fact that someone may not be processing what is given to them in real time?

But I will say that a benefit of the pandemic, at least on this front, is that a lot of the auditions have moved to virtual auditions. So you get a video that you get to watch and learn off of so you can press pause, fast forward, go back. And that is an accessible tool for auditioning because I can spend as much time as I want focusing on it.

I can put my headphones on, I can truly dissect the video to hear what they are saying. And actually, I had an audition a few days ago, and it was the first time I'd ever seen it. And the audition video was live captioned and they provided alt text for it. And I was truly so moved that that was something that someone thought of, because of all the casting directors over the past few years, but no one has ever thought to do that.

And it's more of a, “Why now?” And I’d like to think that the pandemic offered that thinking to that very smart casting director. But we, again, still have a long ways to go now.

Mary: That’s awesome. Talk about your Hamilton audition.

Christophe: [laughs] Well, I've actually been in for Hamilton a few times, so let me think. The first time I auditioned for Hamilton, it was a dance audition. And, you know, it's the song My Shot. And I think that a reason why it went so well for me that first time was because I knew the song. I had an opportunity to discover the soundtrack, discover the lyrics, know them very well.

So when I went to the audition room and the song was My Shot, I was like, “Oh my God, I know this. I can do this. Like, I don't have to like, play catch up.” And also I'd seen the show, I watched the YouTube videos, so I was very familiar with the choreography already. So I went in, did great.

And then I fortunately one time got called back to sing and I had to sing three different songs from Hamilton. And I guess we’re diving deep. That's what we're doing. Singing, because of my hearing loss, is in the performance world, my biggest insecurity. And it's my biggest insecurity because it's the perfect fusion of: I need to hear the music, I need to pronounce words in the ways that I am heard. Because though I can't hear it,

I'm well aware that I have a lisp. I'm well aware that I pronounce sounds differently because I don't hear them the way that other people do. So adding that on to having to hear the music pronouncing the sounds. I'm also nervous, always. And so singing is a big challenge for me in the audition process. So last time I sang, I think that was my last step in the audition process.

But I also think that in order for the theater industry and the casting process to be a lot more accessible and inclusive, is that people need to understand what hearing loss means. Because if they want to be accommodating to disability, in my case, someone who is hard of hearing, they need to understand that, as I said, they may not hear the music in real time.

They may not pronounce words as they're supposed to be said. And if they want to be inclusive, they have to understand that those are the realities. And I'm not saying limitation or hold backs, because that is not the case. But those are the realities of what it means to be hard-of-hearing. And if they want to be inclusive about their casting process, they need to have that be a given.

And so while that is a given for me as a hard of hearing person, there are many other givens for the breadth and beautiful spectrum of what disability also is.

Mary: Going back to what you said earlier, I may be too old, but almost 45, especially being disabled with impaired speech.

Christophe: I don't think so. You know what? To each their own. But if it's truly something that you're passionate about and it's something that you want to consider, it should never, ever hold you back. I’d like to think that we're never too young, too old, too inexperienced, too experienced, to do anything. And that passion, at the end of the day, is truly going to be the driving force.

So if you want to perform, go for it. And if you need help, if you need to know where to go, come to me and I will help you.

Mary: I love you. But we're going to switch gears now. It's important that we talk about mental health, especially within our community. How has society’s attitude surrounding COVID affected you and your mental health?

Christophe: Yeah, thank you for asking. It's very important to honor mental health in the context of the pandemic and especially with the intersection of pandemic and disability. I think it's fair to say that with respect to everyone, that COVID has been hard. To me as a disabled person, it's presented some challenges. You know, I kind of addressed that with Zoom, working online and taking dance classes online, taking auditions at first online.

That was really hard. It made me really, really question whether I was competent, whether I could do all the things that I had already learned and had taken me a long time to learn to do otherwise. And that was really hard on me mentally. And I decided to, you know, maybe flip the gears and switch and accept my disability and advocate for it, because if not for me, at least for someone else. But another thing that has been hard and has taken somewhat of a mental toll is mask wearing.

And I know it sounds selfish in a way. But [laughs] going out, not that I do, but being outside of my home and communicating with people with masks is such a barrier for me. And it makes wanting to speak with people outside of my house a huge obstacle. I have to mentally prepare myself and know that I have enough energy to go and try to over-overcompensate. Because first of all, I'm trying to piece together what words someone might be saying, but then on top of a mask, my speech recognition is probably at like a 10% or 20% at that point. But it’s just exhausting.

And while this obviously only pertains to me, but that has taken a mental toll on me in many ways.

Mary: It's hard because you need access, but you put yourself in danger.

Christophe: Absolutely. Always. And not only do you put yourself in danger, but I don't know how you feel about it. But asking for accommodations is frustrating. And not only is it frustrating, but for a long time for me, it's been tied into feelings of shame and guilt that it is just uncomfortable. And at some point I just give in and I'm like, I'd rather not have the access and just stay behind and be left behind sometimes because it's so annoying. [laughs]

Mary: I hate it. I feel like a burden.

Christophe: Absolutely. I totally relate with you there. And also you don't want to feel like a burden. And I can only speak for myself and I don't know if you share the same feelings. But all we want to do is please. All we want to do is fit in. And the more we ask for accommodations, the more we say we don't get things.

While they’re absolutely essential needs and requirements for the both of us, it's exhausting. And it takes away so much of the joy of being present sometimes. 

Mary: It’s why I say disability is messy.

Christophe: Oh, it is so messy. It is. It's everything. I mean, I could tell you all the negatives about disability, but I don't know if I'm going to be too much of an optimist. But I also think that disability is a superpower, in a way. It makes us more empathetic to people, it makes us more compassionate, it makes us more understanding of the world and individuals at large. But that said, I agree with you, it's incredibly messy. [laughs]

Mary: What is a message that you have for the non-disabled community.

Christophe: I'd love to tie it back to accessibility accommodations and a more inclusive theater industry, to the non-disabled community within the theater industry. They pride themselves in being progressive, representative. And while that is true to a certain degree, it is not in terms of disability representation. The theater industry is one that also prides itself on creativity and in ingenious ways of thinking.

And I would love if the theater industry and the non-disabled community in the theater industry, looked to being more creative about solutions. They’re creative on stage. They can be creative about the people that are in it. They can be creative about its audience members. They can be creative about the accessibility accommodations. And when that happens, I promise, I think I just see like a euphoric land ahead. [laughs] When that happens, the landscape is going to shift dramatically, but in the most positive way. It's going to shift in fair representation of audiences, of actors, and casting directors, of playwrights, of directors. And also, again, to the non-disabled community in the theater industry: I don't know how many people know this, but the disability demographic in the US is the third largest economic purchasing power. That blows my mind. I mean, if you invite and allow the disability community to be a part of the theater industry, it's going to help it economically in radical ways. So that's what I have to say.

Mary: I always say we are viable consumers.

Christophe: Absolutely. Say no more.

Mary: Christophe, thank you so much for joining me today. It was a pleasure.

Christophe: Oh, Mary. The honor is all mine. Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to see where you go. You are such an incredible human being and I love all that you do for the disability community. So, thank you.

Mary: Thank you.