[music playing as Mary speaks]
Mary: Hello everyone and welcome to season 2 of the award-winning podcast The Politics of Disability.
My name is Mary Fashik. I am your host and founder of the Disability Justice movement Upgrade Accessibility. We’re still navigating that bumpy road, but there are lots of potholes along the way.
You’ll want to make sure you’re buckled up really tight.
All set? Here we go.
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Mary: Welcome back! Let’s see where we left off….oh, it was getting good! Are you all buckled in? Great! Let’s not waste any more time and get right to it.
Mary: I remember I went to go get a tattoo, and the tattoo parlor, I had to, like, go around, go to the back. It wasn't accessible. And the artist was frustrated that it wasn't accessible. And we were talking and I said: Yeah, people are always like, “Oh, you’re so inspiring.” And he was like, “Yeah, congratulations for overcoming the obstacles that society put your way.” And I’ve never heard it explained any better by a non-disabled person than that. Non-disabled people tend to put obstacles in our way.
And then when we finally figure out how to deal with them, we're heroes and we're inspiring. It’s like, I don’t feel disabled because of my disability most of the time. What really bothers me is dealing with the ableism that is so ingrained in society. The ableism prevents me from doing things, not necessarily my disability.
Rebekah: Thank goodness for social media because you and I, we’re the same age. We didn't have this when we were younger. We didn't have access to meet and see people like us easily. So I love social media and I've been learning a lot about mobility aids and disability aids, if that's the right word.
But like we're both wearing glasses right now, I can't see well without them for me, it's just another tool, like a wheelchair or a cane or whatever anyone needs to be able to just navigate life. But glasses are seen as a fashion item now. It's like it's cute to wear glasses [laughs], and it's just so interesting how we place different values on tools that are basically serving a very similar purpose.
I mean, they're serving a similar impact. And I was watching a trans activist the other day. They were talking about gender-affirming surgery and speaking on how cis het people have gender-affirming surgeries all the time. And they're not called that. And they don't have to take a psychological exam to do it. I mean, if a person chooses to go get breast implants, that is a gender-affirming surgery because they're trying to be more into their idea of what this gender should look like.
But a cis het woman doesn't have to have any kind of counseling before she decides to get breast implants. So, it really is a value system. And it's also privileged people saying that their choices are right and that non-privileged people's choices are somehow odd or strange, even if it's an identical choice. Like what's the difference between cis a woman getting breast implants and a trans woman getting breast implants? What's the difference? Nothing.
Mary: There is none. But it's like going back to what you said about mobility aids. Glasses, they are expensive, but they are cheap compared to my wheelchair. So, my glasses cost me a couple hundred dollars. My wheelchair costs $28,000 and that is on the cheap end of motorized wheelchairs. They normally rum anywhere from 30- to 50-, and even $75,000.
Rebekah: How does a wheelchair cost more than my car?
Mary: Capitalism. Capitalism and ableism are tied together. And it's ironic when you go look on, like, Amazon, you look for, like, baby strollers, like jogging strollers, they're not that expensive. If you look for a stroller, like a particular kind for disabled children, they're 3 to 5 times the price–only because they’re considered something for disabled individuals.
Rebekah: Wow. It's expensive to be poor.
Mary: I always say that the system is keeping disabled people poor and uneducated. And this has been proven to be true time and time again. Because we’re not able to get ahead financially. And then, going on right now, students who are disabled and chronically are fighting for access to education. They’re fighting for access to hybrid education, so they are not risking their lives with COVID. And universities are denying access to education.
I mean, I understand why because, again, ableism. But it’s so frustrating that something so basic…and maybe it’s not basic. Maybe education is a privilege. And I know it is. Because not everyone gets an education or gets an equal education. But it seems like disabled and multi-marginalized disabled people have even less chance to get an education than a non-disabled person.
Are we seeing a shift in representation in publishing? Is there, because of the Black Lives Matter movement, because we’re seeing a surge in, like, advocacy and activism...is there a shift in representation in publishing, or should we expect to see one?
Rebekah: I think that there is a shift and it's happening for a lot of different reasons. I think that there is an element of tokenism, of being trendy, with the Black Lives Matter movement. We saw a lot of white folks, particularly white women, rise up. We saw a lot of businesses in a very capitalistic, exploitative way, take advantage of the movement by putting a lot of Black people out front or in very low-level positions where they don't have a lot of power. But we can take advantage of those. Right? [laughs]
So, as terrible as the circumstances that brought about the rise of awareness of the Black Lives Matter movement (because it existed before George Floyd) it allowed people like me, it allowed people like me, like my friends and my colleagues who hold marginalized identities…it allowed us to at least get our foot in the door. So, is there more representation? Yes.
Is it for all the right reasons? No. Is it here to stay? Absolutely. Because we're not going anywhere. I am very confident that what we're doing at Row House is going to shift the way publishing works. And it's going to happen faster than big publishing wants it to. Because once you tell people that you're giving them good pay and fair contracts, word gets out and the pressure gets put on.
Mary: And I think you said something important. Getting your foot in the door, when you have a marginalized identity, is so hard. Like, book contracts don’t just fall out of the sky. It would be nice if they did, but they don’t. And any sort of employment in an environment where you’re seen as an equal doesn’t happen, or if it does, it’s very rare. So, I think getting your foot in the door and navigating that space is difficult, but you’ve at least got your foot in the door and then you can go from there.
Rebekah: And someone has to open the door. That's the thing. The door is locked. I mean, we can break it down. And I don't mean to go too deep into metaphor, but it's actually what it is. And it's what you saw when protesters were breaking windows and burning buildings. It's that: if you don't open the door, we're going to break our way in.
And I have no issue with that. It might not be a very popular opinion among a lot of people, but it's because you have not given the opportunity that people are forced to take it. So, I would say if we want more peace, if we want more change, that benefits everybody, open the door. Just open the door. Then I'm going to swing it open and bring all my friends in. [laughs]
So, you better be ready. But that's what it is.
Mary: And that’s why I always say that if I get an opportunity, I’m bringing my community with me. Because we don’t get the door opened, and if it’s open it’s not accessible. So, I mean, talk about metaphor. There’s my metaphor. The door may get open, but it’s not necessarily accessible. What is a message that you have for your colleagues in the publishing industry?
Rebekah: Wow. So, I'll say to my colleagues in the publishing industry…because I know most, if not all of them…when they entered this world, this very creative, rich and beautiful business, that they wanted to make change. They wanted to tell stories. And you might have gotten caught up into the machine. So I would invite them to look back on why they got into this, to read beautiful stories, to change the hearts and minds of people, to create revolutions, to make the human experience just more beautiful and rich.
And go back to that and ask yourself: How does that compare to how you're operating today? And I think, at least in this world, that that's a very easy way to start creating change. Because while there's so many beautiful books coming out and beautiful stories and amazing authors, there's just not enough. There's too much of more of the same.
There's too much of: “I know this exercise book or this diet book is going to sell.” So, let's just make the same thing over and over. And that's just boring and unexciting and not why we do this work. And also, when you open a door, make sure it's wide enough and there's not like a big threshold or any of those things. [laughs]
Like I pictured your door and I was like, “Okay, now we have to make it wider. And we have to make sure that there's not a big bump to go over.” Because that's what it means, right? It means building a better door.
Mary: Well, I thank you. And I thank you for that message. And I want to thank you so much for joining me today. It was a pleasure sharing this space with you. So, thank you for joining me.
Rebekah: It was my pleasure. Thank you so much. It's an honor.
[music playing while Mary speaks] Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Politics of Disability Podcast. As you navigate your journey, remember: disability is political; disability is messy; disability is not palatable--nor does it have to be.
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